vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
117337-not-releasing-the-halloween-content-is-a-critical-failure-in-this-games-long-term-future
Content ---- ---- Even if that meant it pushed it back by a fortnight or maybe even a month, it was probably worth it given how long the event would have lasted. | |} ---- ---- ---- Snorlax would float, body fat is buoyant. | |} ---- I always associated that analogy with the balloon being airborne. | |} ---- ---- Is it though? Telling people continuously to 'come back later' - do you really think that's a good thing to do? | |} ---- So its not just a bad analogy, but a gross misunderstanding of gravity. Heavy things don't fall faster. | |} ---- ---- I know you're trying to be smart, but you're not. In many circumstances heavier objects will still hit the ground before lighter objects. This is entirely beside the point though and doesn't discredit my original argument toward the dying status of this game. | |} ---- And yet the game continues to bleed subs and a lot of people I know that came back for Megaservers have already unsubbed because essentially nothing has changed. Do you think they want to risk more money to come back again for Drop 3? Like I said, the more times you convince someone to quit just makes it harder to convince them to come back, especially when there are so many other options on the MMO market. The Halloween event would have at least given people who came back something to do and maybe kept them around until Drop 3 hits by getting them involved with the game world again and other people. I know you were all relying on Megaservers to change the game: they didn't. | |} ---- Did they promise anything at Megaservers besides megaservers? Didn't they openly state that they can't make the deadline for holiday content and the drop 3? Anyone that came back expecting something different is completely not keeping up with the news that were broadcasted everywhere. The developers are being very very open. And in turn I don't know who would come back for longer than a few days for holiday content. And a lot wouldn't come back just for the holiday content either. For example Guild Wars 2 has holiday content. Even though I don't need to re-sub I didn't go back there. Why? Because it's only a filler. I would come back there for the main story, but they're releasing it so slowly that there's no point in returning until the whole season 2 is done. And they would have not stayed till drop 3. Simply because it would have pushed the drop 3 back by months. And do remember that Drop 3 isn't just content. It's all the required fixes, overhauls, etc. They're absolutely vital. You don't know how gravity works. | |} ---- The analogy holds true because of air resistance being applied to an object light enough for it to matter, such as a normal balloon, compared to that of a 'lead balloon with a snorlax attached'. | |} ---- Regardless of the quality of the analogy, it's more the quality of the real idea behind it that seems sketchy. | |} ---- Then when the halloween event is over they still unsub because NOTHING HAS CHANGED still. And the change is then delayed further. I don't think you really have thought this thru. | |} ---- ---- ---- Saying something that has already been discussed in a previous thread but just wording title different is really grasping for attention. I think you should go back under the rock you crawled out from under until you gather your thoughts and truly research something before trying to make a huge statement like you did. Seriously, some people....smh | |} ---- I don't really think it matters if a certain holiday is celebrated in your region or not. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, seriously. Seasonal events are just a sweet time killer that usually offer interesting items and things to do. They are more lighthearted as well as time/money sinks that a lot of people gladly do. You could throw a "holiday" event at me that had no connection with a real life holiday and I would still be eagerly anticipating it. | |} ---- Actually it is a lot more popular these days in the EU, yes even the UK. I live here too and there are celebration dinners and parties to left and right. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Have you been reading the forums to see how people are raging about the pushing back of the drop? Pushing it back a month might be OK for you, but not the vast majority of players. What I hear on TS: "I can't wait for the new drop" "When do you think the new patch will be out?" "They canceled holidays. Bummer. I'm sad about that." "This gear will finally be usable after the drop." "Do you think the drop is coming this Tuesday?" "Have you been on the PTR to check out the new drop?" "I hope the new drop brings in new players". | |} ---- Happy Holidays! | |} ---- Yeah, but it's not HALLOWEEN abroad yet. It's good it's getting popular somewhere. They're not even allowed to talk about it in American schools anymore. All those people sneering at people bucking tradition by taking the "Christ out of Christmas" are usually the ones taking the fun out of Halloween. | |} ---- Merry Chrismahannakwanzika! | |} ---- Inorite? It's like somehow we expect them to multitask and prioritize using an analog scale instead of a digital one. I just hate it when people expect that a large team of people should be effectively managed, don't you? | |} ---- aaaand you work for them and therefore know that the team is being managed inefficiently? Each department has different tasks Each department works at different speeds Each department has a finite amount of people and resources Sometimes departments are interlinked and some can't proceed until the others are finished their part. Managing over 100 people, even with all the theory and methodologies in your head, even after trying to predict the unpredictable is still pretty hard. Their bottleneck at the moment seems to be QA and testing. And if they're not given the funds to expand that part considerably then they seriously can't do anything. | |} ---- ---- ---- I think it'll get really popular there over time. "Imagine if the entire nation has a giant fancy dress party, watch horror movies, and celebrate the macabre and gothic!" ".... and it's an excuse to drink ridiculous amounts of booze!" | |} ---- ---- ---- Honestly, the original argument was pretty bad and only supported by an anecdote (everyone you know that came back has left again) and bad speculation (halloween content would have lasted for a month). Changing the topic to why your analogy is bad is a much better use of our time. So you want to bring air resistance into this. Your analogy still fails because Snorlax has a gigantic surface area. A lead balloon by itself would fall faster than a lead balloon with Snorlax attached. A penny would fall faster. You picked almost the worst combination of items to evoke a fast falling object. And that's not even getting into your use of the word sinking. | |} ---- ^ This. It's a temporary addition of content that is intended to be frivolous and change up the rut that MMOs often find themselves in. While I don't consider the removal of Shade's Eve and Winterfest a "critical failure," it is definitely a huge disappointment. | |} ---- ---- Well I'm from Sweden originally so yes abroad too. It's as popular as it is in the UK. | |} ---- ---- ---- Drop 3 is certainly more important than a holiday festival. That argument doesn't make its exclusion any less disappointing. Beyond that, rushing through an entire festival's content in 24 hours? That's kinda the definition of binge play, is it not? In any case, I find that I have very little sympathy for people who got carried through PvP ratings or rushed through the entire game to rune up the first week after launch. Nothing to do? Nonsense. They haven't even played most of the game yet. I also do not believe for one moment that those people constitute the majority of the player base. | |} ---- ---- Sure and I don't think most everyone would of preferred to see it. But that doesn't make the premise of this thread any less wrong or less of a whinefest. | |} ---- I don't think anyone is arguing about it being disappointing. Carbine seems very disappointed. But if you agree that releasing Drop 3 soon is more important than Holiday content, then you disagree with OP. | |} ---- ---- Patently untrue. For most people the "acceptable" cash shop content are cosmetic items like mounts, costumes, pets, decor, etc. None of that requires any systems level support beyond what already exists. A large amount of it tends to be variations on the meshes (shape) or reskins and frankly, that's intern level work. So I'm not really sure what kind of skill you expect it to require. Cash shops that offer this sort of thing tend to be self funding meaning that they make enough money to fund the salaries of the artists involved with an often huge profit. Since the work is easy and low risk, cash shop updates tend to be more frequent than playable content updates which leads to the perception that funding was shifted to the cash shop. The reality is these items wouldn't exist without the shop. A smart developer would reinvest some of those profits/talent into creating items that could be acquired IG. | |} ---- Screenshot this. When the game collapses, it'll go on the MMORPG forums as artwork. | |} ---- Suit yourself. Just for grins, why don't you go post it on gamastra.com or gamdev.net and see what kind of response you get? | |} ---- ---- ---- Why does this not surprise me ^Where in the *cupcake* did you get this from main topic ?!? ¬_¬Seriously, people are totally stretching for attention. | |} ---- Christmas isn't happening either, just drop 3 (which should be this month sometime as previously stated, but no-one knows, there's been 0 communication on the topic lately) and drop 4 which is slated for January. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Says you and your opinion. The other opinions here stating the opposite are just as valid, as was the previous 17+ pages of the original thread on this same issue. | |} ---- Sounds like Halloween in America. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- The problem with this idea, and its various different incarnations, is that Carbine is currently engaged in triage on Wildstar, and it may have come to the point where there are no viable options. That is, what if the decision between Drop 3 and Holiday content was like choosing between saving a patient's heart, and saving their liver? The problem is that a patient without a heart dies in minutes. A patient without a liver... still dies, he just dies slower. Drop 3 and Holiday content are really pieces of content that are directed at two different groups, both of which expect to be catered to in order to justify spending time in the game. Content like Shade's Eve would provide, as someone mentioned above, things like costumes and gewgaws, in other words, cosmetic and amusing items for people that aren't necessarily looking for structured fun, but just a rather casual reason to log in. Drop 3 is, of course, necessary for the long term health of the game... but it also doesn't really provide much for the people that would have really liked the otherwise "pointless" costumes and silliness of Shade's Eve. Think about the people in WoW that resub for a month because they want a shot at a holiday mount, or because they have completed they content they were interested in on the regular patch content, but really like one particular holiday in-game. It's a very different group then the group that is hammering away at the new raids on the day that a patch drops. That's the ultimate problem: in delaying/cutting holiday content, Carbine was attempting to chose the slowest death, rather then the best chance at life. Both choices had costs in subscribers associated with them, they just hoped that they made the least painful choice. | |} ---- It's kind of like when Joffrey asked the bard if he wanted to have his tongue or his fingers/hand cut off... neither is a nice option. | |} ---- Best chance at life? Many, many, many are sick of RNG systems, bugs, lack of meaningful progression, lack of meaningful content that isn't just grinding dailies. Delaying Drop 3 even more might have been a nail in a coffin with or without holiday events. They had to make a choice and they made it. Probably wasn't easy or fun for them. | |} ---- The games rated teen, the bubble has gotta pop sooner or later. I'm more bummed my Esper won't get a witches hat or my engineering/scientist bots get a pointy hat and ears or other seasonal vanity of the sort. If they'd gimme shinnies upfront I wouldn't bother with the event honestly even if it were available. | |} ---- ---- Not releasing Shade's eve didn't effect the game. Ingame Holidays are just fun events that happen once a year and they don't effect the current story of a game | |} ---- Critical failure is promoting the Halloween content at a gaming convention, working behind the scenes on a Christmas like one then saying something equivalent to "stop the press, the game is so broken that we need to divert every last resource in a 300 employee studio to bug fixes and rune changes and a couple new zones/instances for 3 months and don't have time for fluff like stuff right now. Sorry that we cancelled Christmas and all that." Take that and the more than obvious massive population declines and you have yourself this thread and the 17 or so page one before this one on the same topic. The holiday issue itself is a victim of the larger problem, but indicative of the overall health of the state of the games progression. That is why it is seen as a critical failure. You would never hear another self proclaimed AAA MMO do the same even 4 months after release, Wildstar is now the first to make that MMO history. | |} ---- Very true. I think it IS proof of a critical failure in their development systems. | |} ---- For some people, MMO History somehow started around june 2014. | |} ---- That's an interesting narrative you have there. I'm not sure where you got it from though. Caydiem's team, the one that was working on the holiday events, being diverted to a higher priority, veteran shiphands in drop 4, because there aren't resources to test holiday content in the window of time left and because veteran shiphands will end up being more significant content for solo players is hardly retasking all 300 employees to working on drop 3. Indeed, a good number of them are working on drop 4 content right now, since it is QA that is the current bottleneck. Edited November 4, 2014 by dinwitt | |} ---- ---- Yes, that was my point, that you for missing it and then restating it in a way that makes it sound like there is only one way to play the game. You've managed to recapitulate what I said, which, again, is: Holiday Events and Drop 3 are content that appeal to largely (though not completely) different populations of players. Carbine is in the position where they are sacrificing one group in the desperate attempt to hold on to a different group they think is larger and/or more likely to provide revenue in the future. | |} ---- Sorry, they're too busy. The game will die if they do that. Honest. | |} ---- ---- ---- Well yea, I actually wouldn't wear a santa hat. Just anything a little special would be nice, considering we have had virtually no updates / anything for the halloween / christmas holidays like other games do. Just something that's fun and unique. I personally think all the protostar stuff is pretty bland and unimaginative, but I'd wear a winter coat or some earmuffs as a costume! | |} ---- ---- Thanks very much, Caydiem. Much appreciated. And if Winterfestivities include hats with a great big neon flashing $ instead of a santa hat, that's fine with me! Heck, that's something that we could use all year long. :D | |} ---- Inorite? I feel the exact same way. When I was a kid, I used to dedicate myself entirely to spiritual growth over the holidays. I clearly remember doing it while I was walking uphill in the snow, barefoot, to get to school. And then I'd do it again when I was walking uphill in the snow, barefoot, to go home from school. And I was HAPPY to do it. I ENJOYED it. But you tell that to kids these days, and they just don't believe you. Kids today have NO respect. | |} ---- ---- ---- Personally, I'd like to see some more discipline. | |} ---- ---- Not sure why this is directed at me as I know my history quite well; reading is another hobby of mine (and I still prefer real books, not so much ebooks). My earlier point still stands. | |} ---- Did Charles Schulz found Protostar? I think that was part of the debauchery comment. :lol: Some games have started referring to their seasonal events as festivals or...seasonal events...to distance the content from real holidays. I agree with you that games shouldn't necessarily try to recreate RL holidays, and that's coming from someone who does appreciate the non-commercial meaning behind holidays. | |} ---- ---- And if those snowballs happen to cause a knockdown on their target, never try to raid Molten Core while the holiday is in progress. | |} ---- Seriously. | |} ---- ---- I stuck a cord of wood through your holiday cheese. Seemed only fitting. B) | |} ---- So sorry that people aren't all poor anymore. Me, I'll take the exceptional human achievements necessary to give average people the ability to purchase as much as they like instead of scratching their life away to provide a few hundred calories a day for their families. In any case, I'm still holding out for an in-game Diwali celebration. | |} ---- ---- ---- Ick no. Unless it's Protostar-esque... The way to your lover's heart begins with chocolate-covered profit! | |} ---- if you subscribe to a magazine, you're subscribing to get those magazines. Whether or not holiday themes are included is up to the magazine. | |} ---- And it's up to the producers of the magazine to keep the issues interesting enough to keep people coming back on a monthly basis. One way they do that is by keeping the magazine's contents topical, up-to-date, and relevant to what people might be interested in that month. During a big holiday season, that is usually something related to the holiday being celebrated. | |} ---- depends what's relevant for the magazine. For example if you have to work trough the holidays and it's your local uni magazine, it might feature a few invites to parties, but will mostly be about expos, new facilities and other non holiday stuff. | |} ---- ---- *facepalm* You say that with like 4 days left until a major drop that most people just unsubbed while waiting for. I would say wait 4 days. If the sentence still rings true, then leave. | |} ---- ----